Angel 0:00
Hey hey, welcome to the better postpartum podcast. I’m your host Angel Swan, crunchy Christian mama to one and postpartum doula to many. I help moms care for their bodies, minds and newborns naturally during the first three months after birth. If you’re looking for pro tips on how to nurture your body naturally after childbirth, take care of your newborn baby using crunchy mama methods and help your whole family thrive during the fourth trimester. You’ve come to the right place. We’ve got a lot to cover, so let’s dive in. I’ll see you inside the episode. Hey, hey friends. Today on the better postpartum podcast, we’re actually going to take a listen to an episode that I recorded with a friend of mine a business buddy. Her name is Arielle Wozniak, and she is a postpartum mental health and wellness coach. She’s awesome. I love her. She has her own podcast called defeat postpartum depression with Arielle Lesniak, she is such a great human being and invited me on her show to talk about surviving the fourth trimester. So it’s just advice from a postpartum doula me. And we talk about her own experiences as far as our mental health during pregnancy, postpartum and just really getting into the nitty gritty of things of what it’s really like and how it really feels to be a postpartum mom. And we talk about a lot of things that I feel are not talked about enough. So I hope that you enjoy this episode. So without further ado, here we go.

Arielle 1:40
Cool. So hi, everyone, it is your host, Arielle Bosniak. Welcome back to defeat PPD. Today I have my first ever guest, and I’m super excited for Angel simpIe. Here. She is a postpartum doula. And I’ll just kind of let her explain a little bit about that, because not super familiar and honestly, I had not heard of postpartum doula until I met you. So if you could just tell us a little bit about what you do and who you are.

Angel 2:09
Yeah, hi, thank you. I’m Angel swans. I’m a postpartum doula and infant care specialist. I help moms thrive during that fourth trimester really like the first three months after having their baby and we work on basically everything postpartum care, postpartum mental health, baby care, like, a lot of my work is helping moms emotionally, because it’s just a crazy time and just being there to reassure them that they’re doing all the right things, even though maybe baby’s crying 24/7 Yeah, so a lot of it is a lot of emotional work. But I also do a lot of teaching, breastfeeding, education, general newborn hygiene, stuff like that. And then for my in home clients, I feel like they’re super lucky because I come in and I come in and do all do all their laundry, do their dishes, I make them healthy foods, like oh, yeah, it’s a lot of fun. It’s a lot of fun and really, really rewarding.

Arielle 3:11
Yeah, I can imagine I feel like I would have loved to have a postpartum doula girl, me to even knew it existed. And I’m like, Man, that would have been nice. But we’re definitely done. So that won’t be happening in my lifetime. But it’s good to have someone like you who can offer that support, especially to first time moms. I know, when I had my first son, I was just like, all over the place. And honestly, when I had my second third, I still was all over the place. Even more so than it’s like I didn’t know what to do. I actually remember my son’s pediatrician when I was pregnant. My second son, he was like, Well, you’re a better parent now. Like, you know more, you’re gonna do better when this one comes out? And I’m like,

Angel 3:52
I don’t think so. I don’t know. It’s different every single time. Yeah. I mean, I only have one kid. But I’ve worked with people who have one kid, two kids, three kids. I don’t think I’ve worked with anybody who has more than three kids, but it’s different every time. And they’re like, they say the same. The same thing. They’re like, I feel like I’m a new parent again.

Arielle 4:13
Yeah, so definitely do different experience every time. So on this podcast, I like to kind of keep things as real as possible. Not like a rainbow and butterflies kind of person. And so I would love for you to share like your pregnancy story with us. Too often, like on social media, we’ll see that someone’s having like the perfect pregnancy and everything’s going great. And there’s no issues there’s no like, even like facial breakouts like, everything’s perfect. And so that wasn’t my case. Like he was not just like, oh, everything’s great. So tell us like what was your experience like being pregnant?

Angel 4:53
I hate being pregnant. It’s like my least favorite. Only thing I say the only thing I ever liked about being pregnant was feeling my baby move inside me that was like really cool. But other than that, it was pretty miserable. Yeah, so I’ve had two pregnancies, my first we lost our first baby. So I didn’t have a ton of pregnancy symptoms other than like really obnoxious ones like I smelled really bad. No matter how much I showered, I was just stinky to the point where like, at the time, I was actually working retail and my manager would have to come and be like, Angel. It’s time for a deodorant break like that right rank and I showered I swear I showered every morning every night. It was not, it was not good situation. But then, second pregnancy with my daughter, Jenny. I was extremely sick for the first 16 weeks, I could not even drink water without throwing it back up. And that was miserable. I really just thought that I was going to die. It was like I can’t even eat. I can’t even drink water, like what’s going to happen to me. So that was bad because I felt like I was dying and also worried that I wasn’t going to be able to like, nourish the baby that was inside me is just kind of sucking the life out of me, essentially. But I love her anyway. I had maybe two weeks. I wasn’t feeling like I was gonna die. And then third trimester. I was really really big. And really, really sweaty. And my daughter was born on July 5, so it was like the dead of summer. Yeah, yeah, I have serious pressure in my hips. I could barely stand. Obviously couldn’t sleep. That’s pretty normal. But yeah, yeah. Also the stink again. I was really stinky. And also irritated all the time. Yeah, just mad probably because of all the physical stuff going on do but I had even gotten in like a screaming match with one of my neighbors at the time, but she deserved it. So that I do yeah.

Arielle 7:03
Yeah, I definitely agree. I know, when I was pregnant with my second son, like I just blew up. And I was just like, really, really large. And it was just so uncomfortable. Like, my legs literally rub together every day. And it was like, I don’t know if it was like chafing or what it was, but it was like so painful. Like, I didn’t want to walk. I don’t want to do anything. It was just, it wasn’t fun. And I mean, people talk about like, the the fun parts of pregnancy. And that’s usually what you see, like just someone really beautiful and glowing. And you get to that point, like there is some part of your pregnancy where it’s like a little bit better. But I mean, it’s it’s painful. Like it’s a whole process to go through your body’s growing and stretching and just doing all sorts of things. So

Unknown Speaker 7:46
yeah, really weird stuff,

Arielle 7:49
records. A lot of weird stuff. Things that I feel like no one really talks about. So I’m like, is this normal? Is this okay? Like, am I supposed to be feeling this? Yeah, I got lately get that

Angel 8:01
my abdominal muscles had actually separated. So I had diastasis happening there. And I didn’t know but like I could. If I was laying back and I would lean up, you could visibly see them separate. And I was like, what’s happening and my doctor was like, you’ll be okay. I was like, Okay. I guess I’ll be okay.

Arielle 8:21
What’s funny is that same thing happened to me like, but when I would get up it looked like it was like a hump. Like, yeah, it’ll hump that would happen. It was like, What is this? Why is this happening? It’s like a baby’s

Angel 8:33
gonna pop right out of you. Yeah, yeah. No, it’d

Arielle 8:37
be good to know. Alright, so I do want to kind of touch on it. I know that you are, at least from what it sounds like, you didn’t really experience too much like depression or anxiety during pregnancy. Is that correct? Right. Right. Yeah,

Angel 8:51
I was mostly just angry. Like, I could turn into rage monster like really, really fast.

Arielle 8:56
Yeah. I mean, it kind of makes sense. When you’re super uncomfortable. You’re not eating like, you’re probably hungry and thirsty. And yeah, all the things. So that makes sense. Okay, so I want to kind of like paint a picture for the the listeners or whoever might be viewing. But if you could just tell me about like, a story of you personally struggling with anxiety or depression. This could be at any point during like your maternal journey. I know that you experienced some of that. So tell us a little bit about that experience.

Angel 9:30
Yeah, so I was like, after I had Jenny, I was really fine. Like, I was obviously like, physically recovering. I was really sore. And I was dealing with that, but like mentally I was fine. I maybe cried a couple of times when I couldn’t get her to settle because nobody tells you the first night home from the hospital is like the absolute worst day so I remember crying a lot that night and calling my mom like, what do I do, but other than that I was okay. I was actually really happy. And just looked forward to being a mom in general, like I was just really excited. But then around like two months, it was like the switch just like flipped. And I was really depressed, like literally is like, I just crashed into a wall. And all of a sudden, like, I started to feel like I resented my baby, which to think about now is like really irrational, like, what? How could you resent a baby? They’re so innocent? Yeah. Breastfeeding became really just annoying for me. I felt like she was constantly on me. And I didn’t have my own body, like I couldn’t be myself. And I’d also was like, getting real cranky with my husband and feeling resentful towards him. Because like, Why doesn’t he do X, Y, and Z. Like, I’m not vocalizing these things to him, though. Everything is like internalized. So I was just piling things on top of each other inside my head and making things worse. And I had really, really intrusive thoughts that were like, really scary. I wouldn’t call it suicidal ideation, because I never had that, like compulsion to really like, think about how I would go about doing something like that. But I would think I would like in any situation, I’d be like, Oh, well, that could kill me right there. Or like driving in the car, I see a ditch and like, Oh, I could just run off into that ditch and die. Like, it was really crazy. I was always thinking about my death. And while I know that, like, I knew I didn’t want to die, like I knew, I wanted to keep going. But to be driving with your baby in the backseat of the car. And picturing yourself, like running off into a wall is like really terrifying. And so at that point, when that started to happen, when those thoughts came into my head, I just talked to my husband and broke down and told him everything that I was feeling. And he was like, Okay, you should see a doctor. Yeah, he’s so sweet. He doesn’t always he doesn’t have like the words to say always. But he’s there. And he’s like, Okay, go see a doctor, because I’m not qualified for this. Yeah, I

Arielle 12:37
think, um, it’s so interesting, like the intrusive thoughts, because I feel like no one really talks about intrusive thoughts. And I’ve been very vocal about intrusive thoughts for I feel like at least a year now. And letting people know that that is something that is common, that actually happens. Yeah. For me, I had very similar intrusive thoughts to you, but it happened during pregnancy with my first son. So I would be just driving down the road. And I would literally just picture myself driving off the side of the highway. And I’m like, Yeah, I’m not trying to drive off the side of the highway, but now afraid that like, my hand might just slip and drive me off the side or something, right? It would happen so frequently, that I was just like, I was nervous to be by myself, because I couldn’t trust that I wouldn’t carry through with something like that. And it was, it was scary for me, because I obviously did not want that to happen. I live off the side of the road or when I was working. And with my first son, I was working in retail too. And I was I did a lot of like inventory work. And so I would like picture myself just like falling off the ladder. And I’m like, Ah, I can’t I can’t do these sorts of things. And like I was just so like, anxious about just normal, everyday thing. So driving was one of them. Like I said, doing like the inventory in the back of the store, like I could not handle it. Because those intrusive thoughts were just like, so loud. And I felt like it was I felt like it was me. And it’s funny because my sister She’s younger than me, but she has a lot more experience with anxiety and stuff. And so I told her about the intrusive thoughts, and I didn’t know what it was called at the time. And she was like, that’s called an intrusive thought. It’s not you. It’s not what you actually want. It’s actually in contrast to who you are as an individual, and that’s why it causes you anxiety. And when I first heard that, I was like, okay, like, I wish I knew it sooner, first of all, because I didn’t learn that until years later. But it was just like this experience where it is really scary if you don’t know what’s happening. And I always like to think and I told my son Abram this all the time, like, once you know that it’s not as scary but when you’re going through it and you don’t know what it is, you’re just like, yeah, why am I having these scary thoughts? What’s wrong with me? It makes you feel like you might be going crazy or something. That’s how I felt. I was like, Am I crazy? I think I might be. And I remember I told that therapist that once said she was like, well, we don’t call people crazy. I’m like, Well, I feel like I’m crazy. So I’m crazy. Yeah, it feels like. So, yeah, I totally get the intrusive thoughts and stuff. And it’s something that I feel like we should talk about, we should tell people that this is something that happens. And if it does happen, then you could be better prepared or just like, equipped and know what to do in that moment. And I love that you share that with your husband, because many women don’t feel comfortable doing that. Because then they feel they might be judged by their partner, and then they’ll get taken away or the baby be taken away. And those are right.

Angel 15:33
Yeah, that’s definitely a really scary thing. That I mean, I can’t even imagine having a partner who would do that without like trying to help you. But it’s, it’s possible. Not every partner is, is great and supportive, you know? Yeah. So I understand the fear. But it’s crazy, because I’ve talked to people about it. Like some of my clients who have been going through stuff like that. They’re like, I just, I don’t want to kill my baby. But I think about it all the time. Like I have these thoughts of like, I accidentally killed them somehow. Yeah. And it’s, I mean, pretty universal across the board. It seems like everybody that I’ve worked with has experienced this to some degree, whether it’s hurting yourself hurting your baby. Or worse, even though it’s not something that you actually want.

Arielle 16:24
Yeah, no, I think and for me, too, like thinking about that from a Christian perspective, and thinking about like, oh, well, that just makes me a bad Christian. And maybe I’m not actually a Christian, what about my salvation? And like, I literally questioned all of that, because like the woman that you’re talking about, I had those thoughts like so the first time having intrusive thoughts with my son, Abraham, it was mainly about me somehow dying. I don’t know why. With Kyla, it was more so like, what if I do something like, we had these really like this long summit staircase, because we were living in an apartment at the time. And I would be like, afraid to carry her down the stairs, because I’m like, what if I drop her? What if I do, and then she just fall to the bottom like, and it would just be like this, like, this image that’s in my head, that literally was like, tormenting me. So it’s, it’s pretty, like it can be really scary, especially when you don’t know what in the world is happening. So I understand that. But thinking of like your experience, and what you went through, what do you think was like, the biggest lesson that you learned from that and experiencing intrusive thoughts, or just all that stuff that you went through?

Angel 17:36
I think the biggest lesson that I learned was I suffered for too long. I just held everything inside because I thought, you know, I would be Googling constantly, like, is this normal? Is this normal? Is this normal, like, whether it be about what I was thinking or feeling, or whatever. And I don’t know why it took me so long to make the connection that it’s normal, but it’s also not something that you have to live with. So the biggest lesson that I learned was, like you should be educated and know, ahead of time, what might happen. And I know a lot of people get scared to, like, look into that, because you feel like, oh, no, it’s probably really gonna happen. And now, like, I’m just bringing it on myself. But it’s important to know what could happen and like the signs and symptoms specifically. So my typical rule of thumb is like, if you’re experiencing, you know, depression, or anxiety, intrusive thoughts, like crying for no good reason, you know, like, if you’re experiencing anything like that for more than two weeks, then that’s long enough. You know, that’s when you need to go in and try and get some treatment. From your doctor, your mental health team, like whoever you’re working with, you just have to tell somebody, or even have a buddy, you know, have a buddy system, you don’t necessarily need to put all that on your partner, because I don’t know if every partner is equipped to handle that. But I feel like a lot of us have that one person who can be like, can you just check in on me and ask me, X, Y, and Z. Like if you have to print out a mental health questionnaire to get through it, then do it but definitely knowing for yourself what to expect and what to look out for and have somebody in your inner circle who can look and check in on you and make sure that you’re actually okay. Because you probably won’t be telling people that you’re not okay. You’re gonna lie and say that you’re fine.

Arielle 19:45
Yeah. I mean, most of us will do that. You know, like, even when you go to the grocery store, and someone’s like, how’s your day like, Oh, it’s good. Yeah, I’m having the worst day ever. I’m fine. Everything’s good. It’s just like our natural response to say We’re fine even when we’re not fine, then I love that you mentioned like researching things and like having that fear sometimes to research it because you feel like you might bring it onto yourself. Yeah. And I remember my therapist at the time she was telling me, like, just because you read something won’t make it come true. I don’t know. Like, then I might really feel like I have it, though, if I read about it. And so I definitely had that fear of like researching different things, or even just educating myself on different types of like maternal mental illness or what have you. Like, I just didn’t, I didn’t want to read any of it. Because then I would think that like, I somehow had it because I read it and it just transferred into me somehow. So I get that. I do. I’m really interested, though. I know that out of your experience. Now you become a postpartum doula. Can you just tell us how that happened? How did you get from being in this place of like fear, anxiousness intrusive thoughts to now being able to help other women who are experiencing that? I mean, washing dishes, doing laundry, like all the things, how did you get there?

Angel 21:06
Yeah. So my way of coping with the way that I was feeling is to research everything. I need to know everything about everything. So in all of my Google searches, somehow, like I came across the world of doulas, and I was like, What the heck is a doula and I? It was crazy, because I really just felt like that was super like divine intervention moment happening is this literally happened in the course of like, a week. So I came across doulas, like what is that? And I Googled more about it and researched more. And then like postpartum doula, what is that? And I see all the things that postpartum doulas can do they help with breastfeeding. They help with emotional support with baby care. And like, basically, they knew all of the things that I wanted to know. I was like, I want to that I feel like really strong that I’m supposed to be doing that. Like, I don’t want anyone to feel the way that I’m feeling. Yeah. And even if they are, if they get to that spot, I want to know that I can help them out of it. So literally, this all happened in a day. And then I found postpartum doula trainings, I research all of that I found one that I was like, I felt like I could align with and I could afford. And they just happened to be having a training that weekend in the area, which is crazy, because they never like they, they scheduled them based on interest. So if there’s nobody interested in my state, they’re not going to have a training there until people show interest. So I texted my husband, I was like, Hey, I just found out what a postpartum doula is. Do you think that maybe I could go to this training? Is this much money? And I think I really would be good at it. And he was like, Yeah, okay, I trust you go for it. Yeah, I was I got no pushback. He was like, Yeah, I think you’d be really good at that. So then I did my training, and a couple weeks later, got my certification and found a local dual agency and started working. And then it just kind of grew from there. So I still work with the agency. But now I have my own doula business where I work with clients in home and then online as well.

Arielle 23:31
Wow. Yeah, that’s, that’s one way to make a decision. Just Just go for it. Found out what it was. And do you want to do it?

Angel 23:40
Yeah, I’m, I wouldn’t say I’m impulsive. But sometimes I’m a little impulsive. And I think this time, it just really felt like, like, literally, it was like, God just like yanked me by the shirt and was like, come here, we’re going on a ride. It’s gonna be great. It’ll be a little bit hard, but you can do it. And it was, it was awesome. Like, I was just sitting. And this was pretty soon after I started getting help for my depression and anxiety that I was having. And just being in that class, I felt like this is where I’m supposed to be. This is where it’s supposed to be. And that’s how I felt the whole way through, like, this is absolutely what I need to do. And then any time along the way, where I felt like, Is this really what I’m supposed to do? I get another client and do something that like changes their life, like mind blown moment, whatever. And I’m like, okay, yeah, this is what I’m supposed to do. So it really was like divine intervention is the only way that I can explain it and maybe a little help from Facebook ads. But look, scanning real, pretty sure I saw something on Facebook about doulas too, and was like, oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

Arielle 24:49
That’s pretty awesome. It’s it’s always good to me to hear like through our brokenness and through like our terrible experiences that we to use that for someone else, when I was going through like postpartum anxiety after having Kyla like, I constantly reminded myself, this is not for you, this experience is not for you, like, don’t keep this in, you have to share this and do something with what you’re going through, because the pain that you’re going through, like, he will use that for His glory, if you will allow him to. And so I mean, you had the option of just kind of staying and getting all the information for Angel and helping you heal and not sharing that with anyone, but then you went out. And now you get to really impact people’s lives, which I feel like that’s what we’re all put here to do, is like, go out and spread that love. And so I’m really excited that that’s what you are doing in your walking in your calling. And if you’re listening right now, I just want to encourage you that your experience and what you’re going through the pain that you’re feeling, it’s not forever, number one, and number two, you can use that experience to help other people. Angel is a prime example of that. I myself am an example of that. And what you’re going through all the pain, the tears, like intrusive thoughts, all that stuff, it can be used, just through these moments, look for what you’re learning and try to take the lesson out of it. I know that it’s it’s difficult. And believe me, it was a real challenge for me. But if you can just write those lessons down, or maybe you even go to Google like Angel did or like I did, because I mean, obviously I Googled everything. But give this information and don’t just hold it in, like release it to people. And that could be just a friend who’s pregnant or someone that you go to church with or whoever it might be in your life, it doesn’t mean that you have to now do this as a career. But I just want to encourage you that there’s a purpose for what you’re going through. And you can use that to serve other people, which I feel like to me brought such a blessing and was a huge part of my healing, honestly, being able to help people. So yeah, I love that.

Angel 27:05
Yeah, I totally agree. And now any situation I’m in if it’s, if I feel like I’m suffering, I just like you said, I just tried to look forward, like something good is gonna come out of this, just keep pushing, you can help somebody else with this later on. Because that’s, I mean, that’s the only way that you can really heal by helping others with whatever it is that they’re going through now that you were before.

Arielle 27:29
Absolutely. And then I just want to ask you, because I feel like there’s so much information out there about anxiety, depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression, whatever mental illness, whatever label you want to put on it. But what are like some of the myths that you think are out there that you would love to debunk? And just like encourage people with today,

Angel 27:51
a myth that I would like to debunk is that when you’re experiencing these symptoms, that you’re just going to automatically recognize it. So even though I said before that you need to know the signs and symptoms, that doesn’t mean that you’re going to be able to figure it out for yourself. And for an outsider looking in, you know, it might be really obvious that you’re depressed, because who knows, maybe they’ve maybe they are well versed on this subject, maybe they’ve been depressed before, and they can recognize it from a mile away. But when you’re like in the thick of it, you know, I don’t think you your mind wants to automatically go to, oh, I’m really depressed. Yeah, you don’t want to think that. And so it’s not always obvious to the person who’s experiencing it that that is what’s going on. So

Arielle 28:40
yeah, yes. And kind of to that point, what advice might you give to like a loved one or someone support team if they think that their their partner or loved one is experiencing postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety? How do they approach that conversation with that person? And you know, just kind of in that like, tender love, what would you recommend? They do?

Angel 29:03
Yeah, it’s, it can be really hard. And it’s kind of scary sometimes, especially if you’re, if your partner whoever it is that thinks that they’re noticing these things, maybe they’re not really good with their words. So if you’re someone who’s noticing this in a friend or loved one, I think the first thing to do is just think about the individual that you’re going to be talking to think about how you can say these things in a way that’s not going to like come off as will you’re barely wanting to hold your baby or using really detached to your baby that’s like a huge one because that’s, that’s one of the symptoms there can be symptoms is feeling detached and yeah, but I can guarantee you that they probably don’t want to feel that way. So saying you’re really detached from your baby is gonna really hurt their feelings. So, coming at it from a place of love and let them know, going into the conversation. Hey, like, are you okay? And they’re gonna say yes. And you have to ask them again, no, really like, how are you? That’s like my signature go to Line is the second one like, Okay, you’re fine, right? How are you really doing? Like, tell me how you’re feeling. And you might be surprised with what they say. And if they still say nothing, if they still insist that they’re doing okay, you can gently say, Well, I just want to let you know, like, I am not judging you. That’s not coming from place of judgment at all, I’m just a little bit concerned about you. And I’ve noticed these things. And then you can present them in a nice way, present them with what you’ve noticed. And you can close with, you know, I’m just letting you know these things, because I want you to be okay. And I know that you want to be the best version of yourself. And right now, I feel like you’re not, you’re not the best version of yourself. And I know that you could be better and I know that you want to be better is the main thing is that they, they don’t want to feel that way. You know, nobody wants to be stuck in there. And so just coming at it from a place of love and support, and let them know that you’re here for them. And you’re not judging them is really important.

Arielle 31:31
Yeah, I definitely would have to agree with you. I love that you asked the question the second time, like, really? How are you? Because I mean, that first one, I feel like it’s almost always fine. Like, I haven’t really had anyone just like one time, say that, Oh, everything’s terrible. It’s usually like the second prompting, or you’re like digging a little bit deeper. I know that there was someone I don’t remember who it was. But they used to say, How’s your heart? Like, how are you really doing in your heart? Wow. Yeah, that was like a stopping moment. Like, okay, how, how am I doing? Like, allow yourself to ask that question. So I love that. And I don’t want to extend too much. But I just want to get from you like what encouragement or piece of advice can you offer to someone who is experiencing depression, whether it’s like, they’re pregnant and depressed, or they already had their baby, they’re experiencing these different symptoms? What encouragement would you just give to them today, that would just be something they can kind of carry on in their heart.

Angel 32:38
I think the most important thing is to remember that it’s not forever. It doesn’t have to be forever, when you’re in it, it feels like it’s forever, you kind of have tunnel vision, and you usually don’t see them and you don’t see, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel. So know that it’s not forever, and it is normal to feel this way. But you don’t have to, is the biggest thing. You don’t have to feel that way. And if you’re noticing any of those symptoms, it’s okay to ask for help. Nobody is gonna judge you for reaching out and asking for help when you need it. And if they are, then maybe you don’t need that person to help you move on to somewhere else, because they’re not it. But ask for help. There are so many anonymous advice lines out there to Postpartum Support International is one that I always recommend. So if you’re, you’re like, Am I going crazy? Like I feel like I’m going crazy. But I’m not sure you can always reach out anonymously. If you’re even afraid to reach out to somebody that you know when you love and you trust already, because it is a very vulnerable thing. Yeah. Just don’t be afraid to ask for help and ask for help. Like, now, like, don’t wait. Because waiting is just gonna make it worse. You just get deeper and deeper into that hole. And it’s hard to climb your way out. And it’s hard to ask for help when you’re deep, deep deep in it.

Arielle 34:05
Yeah, that is great advice. I love that you mentioned psi because I totally forgot about that organization. But I actually called them when I was struggling with after Kyla because I thought I was going crazy. Yeah. The woman I spoke with I don’t remember her name. But she definitely was very helpful to me because she assured me that I was not going crazy. And what I was going through was normal, as you said, but just because something’s normal doesn’t mean you have to go through all of that you can get support. But it was really nice to hear from someone else besides myself or the internet that this was something that was normal and a bunch of women were feeling so I love that advice. I will put the information for psi in the notes for this episode. So reach out like Angel said this is anonymous and so you don’t even have to tell them like where you are your name all those things. They can Just be a listening ear. And they will encourage you along your journey as well. There are plenty of resources out there. I, I hate for people to feel like they’re alone, because you are not alone. There are people out there who care about you and don’t even know who you are, but care about you and your story, and want to be a part of your healing journey. So, Angel, thank you so much for joining us today on this episode, I definitely think there are a lot of nuggets of wisdom. And I hope that you walk away encouraged. And I’m just, I’m so happy that I got to meet you. And just the work that you’re doing is amazing. And so I want to encourage you like to just continue on with what you’re doing it is making a difference in people’s lives. And just really, just really excited that you got to chat with us. And thank you for having me. Yes, absolutely. For the listeners. As always feel free to connect with me, I always want to connect and be there support you in whatever way possible. And you can always get a hold of my free Toolkit by going to defeat PBD calm, and angels contact information will also be in the show notes. So you can get a hold of her you can follow her on Instagram. She also has like a couple of free tools to I can remember what it is that you have for a download on your website.

Angel 36:20
Yeah, so I have a free postpartum planner. It’s pretty thorough, and I’m kind of thinking maybe I should have charged for this. So definitely grab it for free in case I changed my mind. And then I also have some really, really cute scripture cards that you can print out from your printer, cut them out and post them around your house wherever you spend a lot of time so you can just get little boost of encouragement from the word

Arielle 36:42
every day. Awesome. Yeah, so go ahead and check out Angel. And of course, I will see you on the next episode of defeat postpartum depression.

Angel 36:54
Hey, lady, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you did, would you do me a huge favor and rate and review this podcast. The more ratings we get, the more moms we can help. If you want to get more postpartum tips and encouragement, subscribe to this podcast and hang out with me online. You can read my blog at postpartum companion.com/blog. Hang out with me on Instagram at postpartum companion. And join my free Facebook group called the better Postpartum Support Group. If you have your own postpartum story that you’d like to share, head on over to postpartum companion.com/podcast and submit an application to be on the air. Thanks again for listening. And be sure to subscribe and meet me back here next week. Have a blessed day and don’t forget to pray. Bye bye now.